Hi, Tziyona, Thanks for your detailed message. We agree on some things and maybe don’t on others. Meaning, I’m for peace, and I don’t pretend to know the entire history of the region, or what’s really going on. There is so much propaganda on both sides. I’m not sure how you got the idea that I don’t allow discourse; I do. I welcome discourse, as long as it is kind and respectful. (Which yours has been.) I’m aware of the Israelis who were murdered, raped, etc. — and just because I want peace doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s beyond heinous. I do — it is terrifying, heartbreaking, and horrific. And if those people were betrayed by friends, that is awful too. I don’t know if they were, or if that’s something people are being told, though.

Hi Karen,
Thanks for writing back to me. I didn’t realize you had until recently and I have been thinking of what to answer. There are so many points, issues, and perspectives to understand. But let me start off just saying that (which won’t come as a big surprise) this issue is very personal for me. So I get bothered by the statement: ‘there are 2 sides’, ‘both sides are pushing their propaganda. Israel is not just another country. Israel is home. Every Jewish home. So when you doubt Israel, you are accusing your own family (and in this case, me – I am family.) Does that mean that families don’t have differences? Well, that is an obvious answer. But families believe each person can have different perspectives. Still, families don’t insist that the ones they disagree with are lying, making up stories and the other side is more believable.
’Tziyona
From Karen,
Hi, Tziyona, I completely agree with you about Hamas. It is different from the Palestinians, though there is overlap. I know that the Palestinians have also been victims of Hamas in many ways. I have mixed feelings about how Israel is responding. I know it has to do something. I know it has to find Hamas. But killing so many innocent civilians — so many of them children — does not get at Hamas. It only makes Palestinians hate Israelis because their (Palestinians’) families were killed. This makes it way more likely that if Israel manages to destroy Hamas — which would be great — another group that hates Israel and Jews will rise up.
Hi, Karen, So, let’s break this down.
The Palestinians voted in Hamas, and like any other dictatorship (Nazi, Putin, all the Arab countries, etc.), there was never another election (including in the west bank). Their doctrine (Hamas, as well as the PLO and all the other Arab anti-Jewish groups) writes: Our goal is to obliterate Israel and all Jews. And then America, Europe.
They have freely said they don’t feel any responsibility to the Palestinians. Their job is to destroy Israel. So they don’t build bomb shelters. They don’t provide water pipes (though Israel supplied them with the pipes. They ripped them up and used them for bombs. They don’t provide electricity. They tore down the hydro plants that Israel left them after the Israeli government forcibly removed every Israeli (dead or alive) from the area so they could be an independent state. (See here the two-state solution failed). So since then, Israel has had to give them water, fuel, medicine, and food, because Hamas has stolen it from the Palestinian people.

Did you ever hear of the enemy giving and is expected to give these supplies? During a war? And yet, Hamas still won’t give any fuel to the hospital they sent under, because they need it for the tunnels. They took all the medical supplies and fuel and kept it underground. Any doctor who complains may not be seen the next day.

Yet the Palestinians still support Hamas by 75%. They cheered and followed the jeeps that came in with dead Israel women and men. They are taught from a very young age that they are to rejoice at the killing of Jews. Did you hear the voice of the terrorist who gleefully called his parents on the phone of a girl he had just killed and wanted to share the ‘good’ news about how he had killed 10 Jews that day? His father answers,” I wish I could be there with your martyrs.” These people are worse than the nazis, can’t be called animals. They are evil itself.
So it is infuriating when you (and most of the West) say they have to listen to both sides. How can you believe anything they would say? This includes the numbers they announce of who is dead. They haven’t the foggiest notion of how many died, nor do they care. It is all their propaganda to announce. When we announce numbers, it takes days to verify. They don’t verify.
Not that I’m declaring they haven’t been killed in great numbers. But let’s examine that.
- They use human shields. They literally have children that hang around them, so if Israel wants to take them down, they will hurt children.
- They have always used human shields, not allowing civilians to move out of the way. They put them directly in the way.
- Israel sends notices, drops leaflets, and calls telephones to warn when they are taking down a building. Hamas then doesn’t allow them to escape.
- Israel has been telling the civilians to go south to Egypt, but Hamas has actually tried shooting any Palestinian who has tried to leave.
- In any war, civilians get killed. In most cases, the aggressor eventually has more victims than otherwise. Germany had a huge number of civilians killed, but no one raised a fuss about it. And the Americans wiped Dresden flat with no notices, calls, or any previous notice. Germany didn’t warn England about the blitzes either.
- The only country in the world that warns civilians sends fuel and water to the enemy and is criticized by the world is Israel.
Hi, Tziyona, So, my standing for peace does not show a lack of concern for Jews or stupidity. I believe Israel has got to exist. I also believe it should treat Palestinians with kindness and respect, which it hasn’t for a long, long time. Not all Palestinians are Hamas. Israel has told the Palestinians to flee to a certain place, and then it bombs that place. Where are they supposed to go? What are they supposed to do without electricity to refrigerate food and water? Two different stories are circulating, and I really have no idea which is correct. One says Israel is trying to not kill civilians. One says it is killing way, way more civilians than necessary to get to Hamas. Of course, all the officials telling these stories have their vested interests, so who to believe?
Hi Karen, The only reason the Israelis have killed Palestinians is when they have attempted or, unfortunately, been successful in terrorist attacks. The army has not been in Gaza since 2005 until now. There has not been any genocide. The facts make a very different picture. How fast has the Palestinian population grown?
Their population growth rate is among the highest in the world: 3.4 percent in the West Bank and 4.0 percent in Gaza, according to U.S. Census Bureau estimates.
Hi, Tziyona, I am well-aware that Hamas is evil, and would happily kill all Israelis, Jews, and Americans. I’m also aware that Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians. I don’t think Israel does either. I don’t think any Arab countries do either. It’s tragic.
Hi Karen, Israel is the only country that has helped the Palestinians. No Arab country. Egypt does not want to take them in. They have a serious problem They might be better liked when Hamas is dead. Almost all the Arab countries are hoping we will take them out. But the world fights us. Go Figure.
Hi, Tziyona, We Jews know what it is to be scapegoated, unfairly treated, and killed. This time, I get it, but it really seems (no pun intended) to be overkill. Israel has been treating Palestinians horribly and killing many innocent Palestinians for a long time now, though. Why are we doing that to another group when we know what it feels like?
Hi Karen, I Hope you realize this is false. You are buying what Hamas wants you to believe. Does that mean no Israeli police, citizen, or army have not hurt or killed an innocent Palestinian? No, I couldn’t say that, but it isn’t a lot. As I said before, 72% of the Palestinians believe in Hamas and want to kill all the Jews. (This includes the Palestinians that were hired by the very liberal groups – the ones who were massacred)
Hi, Tziyona, I do support Israel, just not all Israel has done and is doing. I support peace, and I think it is possible — if enough people would be committed. It would be a hard road filled with hard and heartfelt dialogues. But it is possible. And it is the most secure way — for everyone, especially the Jews and Israel.
Hi Karen, Everyone wants peace. But at what cost? We don’t want peace with people who cheered on the savages, who want to see these brutal acts again and again and again. We can’t make peace with people who think we deserve what came to us and insist more and more we should be killed. I’m sure you didn’t see the videos (neither have I), but just listening to eyewitnesses has made me cry and cry. No. We can’t have peace. Not until every Hamas terrorist is dead and the civilian population who has the same desire needs to be dealt with. ( I have no idea what).
Hi, Tziyona, So many people in the world have been watching Israel’s treatment — now and in the past — of Palestinians. Not Hamas, but innocent civilians. It makes them hate Israel and hate Jews, so besides hurting other human beings, it hurts us. And makes the world a way more dangerous place for us (Jews).
Hi Karen, These are the people who refuse to believe facts and rather get their information from murderers. It doesn’t prove a thing; it just proves that there are so many idiots worldwide. During the holocaust, people didn’t want to believe what was happening to the Jews. Even today, they don’t believe it. Does that mean that what these monsters are trying to spread as truth should be believed?
Hi, Tziyona, I was and am so upset about the horrible things Hamas did to innocent Israelis. I’m also very upset that innocent Palestinians are being killed. Children, young people, no one who is an innocent civilian in either place or any place, deserves to die.
Hi Karen, Of course, it is sad to see children die on both sides. But their side is self-inflicted. Our side was the worst pogrom anyone had seen in 500 years.
Hi, Tziyona, I’m not sure how you feel I was throwing daggers with my words, but if you tell me, I’m happy to address it.
I didn’t like the equation ‘of both sides’ as I think you understand. But the use of calling our fight ‘revenge’. That is wrong. We are not taking revenge. We could never lower ourselves to their evilness. We are fighting for our lives. For all Jewish life. For the world.
Hi, Tziyona, I trust neither the right-wing nor the left-wing propaganda on this issue. Both have their own agendas, and neither cares about peace or the truth. Peace is life. Life for everyone. Peace is safety. Safety for everyone. It’s the only way to create mutual goodwill. It’s complex because I realize that Israel can’t just let Hamas get away with what it did. But I’m talking about innocent civilians here, families, children….Obviously on both “sides.”
When the massacure happened, all I could do for the first week was watch the news and sob. So…I care very much about what happened to innocent Israeli civilians. And…I don’t want anyone innocent to die. And I want people everywhere to be treated kindly and with respect so they won’t hate and want to kill the people treating them badly and killing their families. On both “sides.”
Hi Karen, Like I said. There aren’t ‘both sides.’ There is innocence and evilness. No way can they be equated. The lies have destroyed our name, but that is what they are. Lies. There is no occupation, there is no massive slaughter on the Israeli front, and there is no apartheid. All lies.
What there is – is real, ugly, old-fashioned anti-semitism leaking out of the universities, Hollywood, and many other people. We are grateful for the support we have gotten. But I get so upset to see “Jews for ceasefire’ ‘Jews for Gaza’ and ‘Jews for peace.’ They are so misguided, so treacherous, and they should not think for one moment that because they support Hamas, Hamas won’t come after them when given a chance. That is true for all the Wokism who support Gaza. Don’t they realize Hamas throws gays off of buildings? They beat women who look at another man. They chop off youth’s heads if they catch them listening to Western music. These are the people any Jew (much less any American) is supporting is very sick.
Jews and people of the West stop thinking that the world is progressive and that all we need is love. Hamas is pure evil and believes in death. They say it about themselves. It is time to believe what they say and act accordingly. They want to take over the world and the Jew is their first stop. (And let us pray it will be their last).
Thanks for writing and being in contact, Karen.
Love, Tziyona
Some notes and videos:
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fworldisraelnews.com
What percentage of Palestinians support Hamas?
That’s three-quarters in total who supported the indefensible. Another three-quarters of Palestinians (76 percent) said Hamas was playing a positive role, while 98 percent said they feel some or great pride as a Palestinian. Just 13 percent of Palestinians opposed Hamas’ attack (21 percent in Gaza).
According to another New York Times report, “Hamas has used civilians as human shields and positioned underground bunkers, weapon depots, and rocket launchers under or near schools, mosques and hospitals”.
https://unmasking-campus-antisemitism-a-call-to-action-against-students-for-justice-in-palestine/?
htthttps://highlandcountypress.com/why-woke-support-hamas#gsc.tab=0



























Author Jonathan Neumann (courtesy)
Rabbi Rick Jacobs, center, and other progressive Jews clashing with security guards in front of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, November 16, 2017. (Noam Rivkin Fenton/via JTA)
